John Murtha, Traitor

John Murtha's said some extremely outrageous things the past 6 months but nothing as outrageous as his latest pack of lies. He was barely tolerable when he was hurling lies about conditions on the ground. This latest tripe is the stuff that should get him expelled from the House. Here's his latest pack of lies:

Rep. John Murtha, an influential Pennsylvania lawmaker and outspoken critic of the war in Iraq, said today Marines had "killed innocent civilians in cold blood" after allegedly responding to a roadside bomb ambush that killed a Marine during a patrol in Haditha, Iraq, Nov. 19. The incident is still under investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service and Multi-National Forces Iraq.

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"It's much worse than was reported in Time magazine," Murtha, a Democrat, former Marine colonel and Vietnam war veteran, told reporters on Capitol Hill. "There was no firefight. There was no [bomb] that killed those innocent people," Murtha explained, adding there were "about twice as many" Iraqis killed than Time had reported.

Frankly, this is the actions of a traitor or a sellout. He deserves to be ridiculed, excoriated and frog-marched off Capitol Hill, then remanded to jail. No bail. Doesn't this idiot know the type of damage this inflicts on the Marines? Or is it that he's so intoxicated with the thought of becoming the next chairman of the House Armed Services Committee that he'll say anything?

When Murtha's made prior outrageous statements, I've advocated that the Pennsylvania voters should fire him. This goes beyond him advocating "immediate redeployment" of the troops or his claiming that "our troops are living hand to mouth". This rises (sinks?) to the level of harming the U.S. military at a time of war. That takes it beyond Pennsylvania. Now it's the nation's business .

For that reason, I'm asking that the House Ethics Committee start an investigation into Murtha's actions and that they expel him from the House if he's found guilty of betraying the soldiers of the U.S.M.C.

The Marine Response:

"I do not know where Rep. Murtha is obtaining his information," said Lt. Col. Sean Gibson, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Central Command in Tampa, Fla. "Thoroughness will drive the investigation."

Translation of Col. Gibson's statement: "I don't know where Murtha came up with this BS but it won't cut it around here. We'll do the investigation right."

Mudville Gazette , Hugh Hewitt and Newsbusters have more on the story. This story is about to overshadow the immigration debate. Expect it to be the topic for the foreseeable future.

UPDATE: WOW!!! This has taken off across the right blogosphere. Oliver Willis is ripping me. I'll wear that as a badge of honor. Blue Crab Boulevard, Beth at Blue Star Chronicles are just a couple of the multitude of blogs hopping on this story.

I predict that this will be the dominant news story for the next week+. Blue Crab Boulevard is joining me in demanding that Murtha either resign or be booted out of the House. I suspect alot of people will be joining us.

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Originally posted Wednesday, May 17, 2006, revised 19-Nov 5:52 AM

Comment 1 by Wild Thing at 18-May-06 12:17 AM

GREAT write up on this, thank you.

Comment 2 by Christhughes at 18-May-06 12:55 AM

shitty write up and you are wrong - any marine that has wasted an innocent civilian will have to live with the damage they have done - to what end - are they or we any safer because these women and children died at their hands?

Murtha is doing what he thinks he should to protect America and the Corps/Military

how dare you - shame....

Comment 3 by ned F***ing flanders at 18-May-06 04:49 AM

Sooooo . . . you're apparently in favor of soldiers massacring unarmed civilians.

Okay, then. Thanks for clearing that up.

Comment 4 by Lurch at 18-May-06 06:15 AM

I find it incredible that an apparently sentient being approves of war crimes, massacres of unarmed civilians, including women and children, and advocates excoriating and punishing an American patriot who feels this sort of behavior is beyond the pale for a civilized society. I'd be very surprised to learn that you are a combat veteran. I would also be surprised to learn that you have ever served in the military.

People who have actually served, and served in combat, understand how disgraceful incidents like this are. Apparently you're unable to comprehend that treatment like this imperils our own troops.

Comment 5 by Gus at 18-May-06 08:24 AM

Good for Murtha for saying something. Unfortunately this will either get pushed under the rug, or a couple of enlisted men will get slaps on the wrist, just like at Abu Ghraib.

Comment 6 by Hogwild at 18-May-06 09:13 AM

During WW II the Germans employed a very effective tactic against the insurgents. For every German soldier killed, 50 civilians were chosen at random and publically executed. There's nothing wrong with this if it saves lives.

Comment 7 by Pinko Punko at 18-May-06 10:58 AM

I suspect alot isn't a word.

Comment 8 by chuck at 18-May-06 12:42 PM

Murtha's basing his comments on the Marines' own investigation, you idiot. It was the Marines' investigation - not Murtha - that said that the Marines' initial account (that the townspeople had been killed by an IED) was patently false. It was the Marines' own investigation that pointed to photos of the townspeople killed execution-style from point blank range. And it's the Marines' own investigation that led to the officers immediately responsible to be relieved of their duties and the matter treated as a criminal investigation. Look it up, and STFU. Murtha's just the messenger, and unlike you, he knows what it's like first hand.

Chickenhawk.

Comment 9 by Pinko Punko at 18-May-06 02:13 PM

I would like to point out that this is the first decent looking right wing blog I have been to. Funny how the tasteful design has been slightly compromised by the mind-bendingly obtuse commentary.

Comment 10 by upyernoz at 18-May-06 02:23 PM

[Murtha's] latest pack of lies

how do you know they were lies? were you there? did you see the data gathered from the investigation as murtha has?

frankly, your entire argument rests on the assumption that murtha is wrong and yet you don't say a single thing to contradict his account of what happened. the fact that you so quickly rush to declare him a traitor.

enjoy all the attention, quite a bit of it is from people who cannot believe someone would declare a congressman a traitor simply because of what he said and when what he said could actually be factually correct. honestly, when i read the excepts of your post printed elsewhere i assumed it was some kind of parody.

you have proved one thing though, just how unhinged a lot of right-wing bloggers have become.

Comment 11 by upyernoz at 18-May-06 02:37 PM

sorry to comment again, but the comment by hogwild is just priceless. i gotta reprint it again:



During WW II the Germans employed a very effective tactic against the insurgents. For every German soldier killed, 50 civilians were chosen at random and publically executed. There's nothing wrong with this if it saves lives.

apparently it completely escapes hogwild that the tactic by definition does not save lives. i mean, at current casualty rates, hogwild is advocating the the united states murdere an average of about 130 innocent civilians per day. yes, that is sure to save lives.

and it's funny how hoggy thinks adopting nazi tactics is a good thing. besides, the nazis were so famously effective at stopping other people from fighting them. that's how they won WW2, right? they started killing people and resistance ended.

Comment 12 by Scalia\'s Robes at 18-May-06 02:39 PM

On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians and a Marine. In a later gunbattle, U.S. and Iraqi troops killed eight insurgents, he said.

U.S. military officials later confirmed that the version of events was wrong. read: THEY LIED

Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.

"This one is ugly," one official told NBC News.

So riddle me this wingnuts...where do you get off attacking John Murtha. You who were born without spines are not in the same league as a man like Murtha. I know you think you're tough and macho and all perched there over your keyboards with your decaf non-fat lattes at arm's reach, but really you're just a bunch of weasles who are too jelly-livered to face the hellish reality that your party has created. You will all go to your deaths believing that it is "somebody elses fault." Pathetic.

Comment 13 by salvage at 18-May-06 03:09 PM

I'm trying to figure it out, are you plain stupid or just the perfect Bush Zombie?

Well, a bit of both I suppose.

Comment 14 by Jack at 18-May-06 03:59 PM

Let's see. John Murtha left college to sign up for service in the Korean War. As an enlisted Marine was selected as a Drill Instructor. Was selected to go to Marine Officer Basic School and commissioned a Marine Officer.After Active duty, served in the Reserves. Volunteer to go on active duty and serve a tour in Vietnam, where he was awarded the Bronze Star w/V for Valor, and the Purple Heart. Has served in Congress as a conservative Democrat for many years, is the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee. He is know as an expert in Congress on military subjects, and has the trust and gets feed back from Officers and enlisted men in the field. As anyone who goes thru Marine training, and stays in the Corps for 30 years, he loves the Marine Corps.

OTOH, we have the poster of this thread, id'ed as Gary Gross. Couldnt find a bio here or at California Conservative. Does not back up his assertion that John Murtha is a tratior with any facts, only his opinion.

Until the investigation is completed and reported to the American public, This Veteran of 5 years active Duty in the US Army as an infantry officer will believe Congressman Murtha, and not some shill, no facts, obviously in the tank for the Bush administration hack.

I think any other rational being would agree.

"You can have an opinion, but you cant have your own facts"

Any questions??

Comment 15 by Jack at 18-May-06 04:13 PM

Another comment. You state John Murtha has said extremely outragous things the last 6 months.

I think the only thing outragous is that it took so long for a respected military expert in Congress to speak out.

After the dearth of WMD, the obvious stovepiping of intell to prove the version of "reality" where it made sense to attack Iraq, The admission of the Administration of the "thousands.. of mistakes made in Iraq" --Condi Rice, Sec of State. The "we will be greeted with flowers and candy" and "the war will be paid for by the Iraqi oil revenues".. The NINE BILLION DOLLARS MISSING FROM THE COALATION AUTHORITY AUDITS, I could go on, but you get the picture?

Who has been consistently wrong about the Iraq Adventure? Not John Murtha.

The administration, especially the Sec Def, VP, and George W. Bush, are the ones that now admit that "mistakes were made".

Now for my opinion---

If there is justice in this world, I think Condi, Rumsfeld, Cheney, the other warmonger neocons, and Bush should be tried, and sentenced to life, not in a nice "Club Fed" prison, but to empty bedpans at Walter Reed Army Hospital and Bethesda Naval Hospital the rest of their sorry lives. That might start to change the bad Karma they brought on themselves and this country in the wrong headed invasion of Iraq.

Jack, USAR, Infantry Officer, Active Duty 1975-1980

Comment 16 by mdhatter at 18-May-06 04:29 PM

"We cannot build a unified country by inciting people to anger, or playing on anyone's fears, or exploiting the issue of immigration for political gain. We must always remember that real lives will be affected by our debates and decisions, and that every human being has dignity and value no matter what their citizenship papers say."

--President Bush, 3 days ago.

just saying.

Comment 17 by beth at 18-May-06 08:53 PM

Wow. You get more hate-filled comments than I do. Congratulations, you obviously hit a nerve and scared them. They've all come out to attack you.

Interesting to me that they are so quick to judge the soldiers before there has been a completed investigation and give Murtha a pass for declaring their guilt to the world without the priviledge of due process.

So they've been tried and convicted in the court of the media.

If they are guilty of what they have been charged with they need to pay the price for that. If they aren't they need to be cleared.

The whole point is that Murtha made it public, undermining the military and morale of the Soldiers. It wasn't his place to do that and totally inappropriate.

Shame on him.

Comment 18 by Jack at 18-May-06 10:03 PM

Wow, Beth.

The hate is to call a person who served as a Marine for 30 years a traitor.

The Hate is to excuse the unneeded deaths of civilians as OK.

By the way, I dont think any poster disagreeing with Mr Gross is afraid of him.

We are just in awe of how, with NO facts to back him up, he automatically calls a combat veteran with a Bronze Star for Valor, and the Purple Heart for wounds recieved in combat a traitor.

Check that. Not awe. Disgust. We have NO indication that Mr Gross knows anything about this issue, other than he will automatically defend the administration and it's failed policies.

Tell me Beth, If the shoe was on the other foot, and Radical Islamists had occupied your town, and on patrol, our partisans had succedded in killing one of them, what would you feel when your neighbors are slaughtered by out of control invaders, maddened by mind numbing, soul numbing day after day of being shot at and blown up by our attacks, so that they loose all control and start shooting civilians? That they kill the nice young woman with the baby that lives next door to you, and the baby too? That they shoot up your house, toss a few grenades in, and wound you and kill members of your family?

Look up empathy, Beth. Or are you one of the sociopaths that seem to be so common on the right wing that care only about their ideology and THEIR vision of the world and how it should be, and are willing to lie, cheat, and even kill to get what they want. Because they cannot even recognize that other humans have feelings and rights. Because they consider other people just pawns in their games for power and wealth. Just as long as they or their family dosnt get killed.

Most people that become soldiers do so because they want to protect their country, the things about the country that are right. I know thats why I served, and I am sure that's why John Murtha served.

And when incidents like this one happen, it is sicking for what we as American soldiers aspire to uphold.. the Constitution, basic fairness for all, to protect and save the weak, as we did in WWII, and save mankind from evil. Yes, you have to do violent and destructive things to win a war, but killing unarmed civilians is not one of them and stains our national character. And will surely haunt those young men the rest of their lives.

Comment 19 by annieangel at 18-May-06 10:05 PM

This guy thinks he's being satirical and hilarious. What he doesn't seem to understand is that this post is not only in bad taste, but it is not clear and obvious satire and is therefore not only unfunny, but totally cobagistical.

Comment 20 by Jack at 18-May-06 10:18 PM

And another logical point..

Do you seriously think a politician, a Congressman with decades of experience, is simply going to go out on a limb with an unverified story of such an atrocity?

Due to his long service on the Defense committees, Mr Murtha has deep sources in the military coumunity. He must have the facts of the case from Navy/Marine Corps insiders. There is no way someone with his experience is going to LIE to the National Media on something like this. What would be the advantage?? There is only a downside to publicize this, even if it is true, because people like you and Mr. Goss are going to attack him for it, no matter how true it is. You'll say, for the good of the war effort, we must suppress such reports, they will hurt us in world opinion, hurt the morale of the troops, we simply MUST lie about it. Or kill the story.

So you try to kill the messenger of the truth.

Usually, you folks of the right claim to be Christian, although you often have a rather unusual way of following the teachings of Jesus. I seem to recall one of my favorite Bible verses is "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.." We need to know the truth about this war, even when that truth is uncomfortable and demoralizing. If you are going to make positive change, you have to start with the truth, else you have built your house on shifting sand. Another biblical reference, no?

In closing, why not read the Sermon on the Mount, Beth.

Nothing in there about killing your enemies women and children. Seems to me it says that the peacemakers are blessed....

Comment 21 by shingles at 18-May-06 11:29 PM

Behold the awesome wonder working power of Let Freedom Ring!

Now that you and Blue Crab Boulevard have teamed up to vote Murtha off the island, his career is effectively over. I expect he'll die a ruined and broken man now, forever cursing your names.

Comment 22 by Pinko Punko at 19-May-06 12:59 AM

Thank you, Jack. We snark, but you took the time to write how I think we all feel.

Comment 23 by Buz Luken at 19-May-06 12:50 PM

I just stopped by to call you an asshole.

So: you're an asshole.

Thank you.

Comment 24 by fubar04 at 19-May-06 05:06 PM

i will only ask one thing. that people think for a minute. remember afer 9/11 when bush said to go about our daily lives and do what we usually do? go to movies, go shopping, etc. if we stop doing those things then the terrorists win. well, it appears to me that they have. this administration wants to "swift boat" anyone who speaks contrary to what they say. mr. murtha is a decorated marine. why would he make up these stories about his own family? (being a former marine with a son in the marines i do not want to believe it either) given the fact that this is first an illegal war of aggression and that the military is stretched to the breaking point, there are still people out there who want to shoot the messenger. bush wants us to give up essential liberties so he can wage his never ending war on "terra", they expect us to let them ride roughshod over the piece of paper that makes us a democracy. the u.s. constitution. when we let our own government take our rights away from us willingly, then the terrorists have most certainly won. mr. murtha is not a traitor. the administration is and all those who support their dictatorial agenda. when we voluntarily give up those rights given to us, paid for by so much blood then the terrorists have won. when we try to stifle dissent, the terrorists have won. wake up people and think for yourselves.

Comment 25 by EJG at 19-May-06 05:25 PM

Why blame the messenger and not the wrong that was done? The real lowlife who should be indicted, convicted and hung in a public square is that damned monkey in the white house. He is an idiot and so are those who still blindly follow him. Either you are so out of touch with reality that you think he is doing a good job or you are a complete moron who doesn't know any better. I worked for many years with the mental health population and the retarded. I often remember one of them saying they were going to vote for bush because he made good beer.....that seems to be the mentality of the idiots who support him!

Comment 26 by Art Mofodopoulis at 19-May-06 09:47 PM

Sigh....Are you going to indict House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), as a traitor, too, and demand that he be hauled off to prison and held without bail? Friday, he held a press conference saying that the actual civilian death toll would probably be 24 lives -- and echoing Murtha's charge that the Marines initially lied about the cause of the deaths. This is what Hunter said: "The initial reports, obviously, that came up through the command didn't . . . tell the story," Hunter said. And he called for a Congressional investigation to boot.

What both of these Congressmen are doing is TELLING THE TRUTH. You get that? You're objecting to THEM TELLING THE TRUTH -- which leaves you with zero, zip, zilch credibility. You're a hopeless tool.....

Comment 27 by jurassicpork at 19-May-06 10:05 PM

You have got to be the stupidest carbon-based lifeform in the entire solar system. Why in God's oft-abused name would you accuse John Murtha of spreading "a pack of lies" when the account of the murder of those 15 Iraqi civilians, which is not, I'd like to add, an isolated incident, has been thoroughly vetted gy reputable news sources?

How about being outraged that these war crimes are being perpetrated in your name and with your tax dollars instead of attacking the messenger?

Comment 28 by jane doe at 20-May-06 02:08 AM

F*** you

Comment 29 by jane doe at 20-May-06 02:36 AM

Let me clarify that. My previously posted response was directed at this thread.

Truth be told, I loved and totally agree with the majority of posters that responded. LOL.

For a right wing cancervative blog , the majority seem to utterly disagree, as I do,with your pro Chimp adoration.

Hello, that should send off an alarm bell.Kudos to Murtha. The man has honesty and cahones.

29% and soon to plunge further, except for the koolaid drinking sheeple.Americans have had a bellyful of LIL W.

We want our country back.

Sinerely, Jane Doe

Comment 30 by barry at 26-May-06 08:12 AM

well what about an apology from you fascist idiots. so now that some of the scales have fallen from your eyes what do you think ofd the criminal enterprise called iraq now!

Comment 31 by elambeth at 26-May-06 09:38 AM

Murtha was right. He has deep connections in the Marines. He simply brought out the story (the pending Courts-Martial of some soldiers for a massacre) early, before it was made public to the general media.

His point was to further emphasize how bad this mistaken war is and how under pressure these men and women are.

It stuns me that you chickenhawks are so quick to brand Vets traitors and you continue to try to justify the actions of a president (incompetent, draft dodger) that lied us into this war. Get some common sense you ignorant bastard.

Comment 32 by American Patriot at 26-May-06 10:39 AM

A military investigation into the deaths of two dozen Iraqis last November is expected to find that a small number of marines in western Iraq carried out extensive, unprovoked killings of civilians, Congressional, military and Pentagon officials said Thursday.

Two lawyers involved in discussions about individual marines' defenses said they thought the investigation could result in charges of murder, a capital offense. That possibility and the emerging details of the killings have raised fears that the incident could be the gravest case involving misconduct by American ground forces in Iraq.

Officials briefed on preliminary results of the inquiry said the civilians killed at Haditha, a lawless, insurgent-plagued city deep in Sunni-dominated Anbar Province, did not die from a makeshift bomb, as the military first reported, or in cross-fire between marines and attackers, as was later announced. A separate inquiry has begun to find whether the events were deliberately covered up.

Evidence indicates that the civilians were killed during a sustained sweep by a small group of marines that lasted three to five hours and included shootings of five men standing near a taxi at a checkpoint, and killings inside at least two homes that included women and children, officials said.

That evidence, described by Congressional, Pentagon and military officials briefed on the inquiry, suggested to one Congressional official that the killings were "methodical in nature."

Comment 33 by chickenhawk at 26-May-06 12:26 PM

California Con: It is you, dear sir, who is the liar. You should be frog-marched and remanded to jail. No bail for you!

Comment 34 by chickenhawk at 26-May-06 12:38 PM

Ahem...

Military to Report Marines Killed Iraqi Civilians

Care to respond, or will you just hope it goes away?

Comment 35 by Craig at 26-May-06 12:45 PM

The writer of this lie was too cowardly to put his name on it?

So much for accountability as the story he said was false, was true.

Comment 36 by peteathome at 26-May-06 01:58 PM

Yes - let the person who made these slanderous statements against a decorated marine come out of anonymity and publically apologize. Be a man.

Comment 37 by Harry at 26-May-06 02:27 PM

How many of you who excoriate Congressman (Col. ret.) Murtha have served in combat, in the Marines, or in themilitary for 37 years?

I agree with Christhughes comment:

"Murtha is doing what he thinks he should to protect America and the Corps/Military."

The investigation will shed light, if Rumsfeld doesn't suppress it. If those Marines are found guilty of what they are accused of, then they have shmed themselves, and the Corps and the US in general and they have to pay. By the way, Marines are Marines, not soldiers.

Comment 38 by James at 27-May-06 01:46 AM

The poster of this thread has no idea what it is to be a Marine. Our core values are held high because marines live and die by them, and other people live and die by the consequences. Honor, Valour, Courage, how dare you soil a former Marine for doing what every Marine should do. Yes we are at war, but even in war if we do not hold true the values of our country, then we are no better then thugs and cowards. Cowards are not marines. The FEW, the proud... Something you will never understand. You are the traitor, your willing to play games with people's lives and make light of statements made by a man who's bought freedom for you thousands of times over. You disgust me.

-James

Comment 39 by rico gutierrez at 30-May-06 11:21 AM

I'm sure you get told this a lot, but you are one ignorant asshole, LFR.

Comment 40 by Libby at 30-May-06 07:43 PM

The reason we seem to be losing this war is because you "Lbs" want us to lose. From the onslaught of this campaign, we have been told on a daily basis, how wrong this war is and how awful Abu Grab was. Day in and Day out, but when an innocent American was beheaded, if you didn't catch it on the evening news, you never heard about it.

Do any of you realize hoe those beheadings were performed? The Sliced into the neck of the person, slowly sawing away and we the American people were lead to believe it was one quick chop. It was one quick chop alright, a chop that lasts 3 full minutes.

I really hope more of our "Liberal" reporters overt there die. It serves them right for misleading us.

Remember Vietnam was a Liberals Was.

Comment 41 by Libby at 30-May-06 07:44 PM

The reason we seem to be losing this war is because you "Lbs" want us to lose. From the onslaught of this campaign, we have been told on a daily basis, how wrong this war is and how awful Abu Grab was. Day in and Day out, but when an innocent American was beheaded, if you didn't catch it on the evening news, you never heard about it.

Do any of you realize hoe those beheadings were performed? The Sliced into the neck of the person, slowly sawing away and we the American people were lead to believe it was one quick chop. It was one quick chop alright, a chop that lasts 3 full minutes.

I really hope more of our "Liberal" reporters overt there die. It serves them right for misleading us.

Remember Vietnam was a Liberals War.

Comment 42 by None of your business at 01-Jun-06 02:33 AM

I think it's a shame that pathological liars such as the author of this tripe can so easily dress themselves up as conservatives and pretend their bigotry has roots in any political agenda. It is a shame though. There are real conservatives out there with genuinely thoughtful ideas about politics. And you disgrace them with every word you write.

Comment 43 by None of your business at 01-Jun-06 02:40 AM

Libby, you would fit in well with the insurgents. It's a shame you weren't able to join them so you could act out your cruelty more frely. It must really suck to be part of a civiized nation, and to back a responsible military, one which is held accountable for its actions. If only you had been so fortunate as to be born a muslim, then you could act oput your fantasies and murder a liberal yourself. You could even do it slowly, say by cutting someone's head off for 3 minutes straight. And if all goes well, you could even get it on the news. So, everyone could witness what lies in your bloodthirsy and murderous heart.

Comment 44 by Bill Wolford Jr at 17-Feb-07 12:39 PM

Murtha, in a speech I heard, said that he wants to cut off funding for Iraq so the troops will not have the equipment they need.

This is attempted murder, and he should be arrested and charged.

And if ONE American is killed from being under supplied because of these traitors, every one that voted to deprive them of the equipment they need should be arrested for murder and treason, and on conviction, put in front of the firing squad.